County deputies vie for sheriff's position
Comet staff report

Carroll County Deputies Tony Burns and John Chapman are opposing each other in the May primary election. They each want to be the Republican party's candidate for county sheriff.

Both Chapman and Burns are graduates of Delphi Community High School, have resided in Carroll County for most of their lives, and are currently raising families here. They both have nearly 20 years experience on the department and have both served as chief deputy -Chapman for the past three years and Burns for the three years before that.

And, both Burns and Chapman agree that changes need to be made in the sheriff's department.

The two candidates sat down last week for an interview with the Comet. They were each asked the same questions. To see how their responses differed, read the following Q and A.

"I'm personally committed to the community," said Tony Burns, Republican candidate for county sheriff. "I see the need for change and that is what has influenced my decision to run for sheriff." If elected sheriff, what do you see as your most important role?

Leadership was Burns's reply. "The sheriff needs to be a community leader and provide strong leadership to the department and to the citizens who put him in office. He also needs to be held accountable by the taxpayers." What do you think is the biggest challenge facing you if you are elected sheriff?

Burns

"The biggest challenge is creating a working partnership with the community to provide the best public service that we can," said Burns. " There are areas that need improved upon."

He added that once some of those community needs are identified, then police need be responsive to those concerns.

"Another challenge would be budgetary issues," he said. "We need to really work with the county council on controlling the sheriff's operating budget." What qualities do you possess that you believe will make you good sheriff? "My personal belief is that in law enforcement you always have to treat people with respect and dignity and treat them like you would want to be treated under the same circumstances. I've always tried to treat people that way. I would demand that any officer working under me would also treat the public that way."

He said the sheriff has to have the highest level of integrity, be very professional, and be accessible to the public. "In being accessible, I believe in an open door policy and that is exactly what I'm going to have if elected sheriff. If somebody needs to come in and talk with me and if I don't have the time right then and there, I'll schedule a time that I can meet with them." If elected, do you see yourself as an administrator/delegator or as hands-on officer who works the field and is seldom behind a desk? Burns explained that he would be manager in a leadership role. "Our officers are highly trained, they have the experience and the training, they don't need me out in the field for a small call or for a call that doesn't require the additional manpower."

He said that for major cases requiring a senior officer on the scene, he would have guidelines for his officers as to when to call him out for cases that need his assistance.

He said a sheriff has so many administrative duties pertaining to budgetary issues, maintaining the jail facility, and addressing inmate needs, that there is not time for him to be out in the field all the time responding to calls.

"If you're going to be accessible to the public you need to be in your office and be at the sheriff's department so that if people come in to speak to you, you're readily available to them," he added. How would you handle public criticism of the sheriff's department?

"I would hope that before it got out of hand people would come to me with any issues that they have with the agency or officers and I would certainly then sit down with them and address those issues," Burns said. "I would hope that by addressing them from the onset that we could take care of any criticism before it got out of control. I believe in tackling problems or criticisms head-on because some people may not be well informed or may have a misconception about why something was done."

Before someone publicly criticizes an officer or his department, Burns said he would want them to have all the facts first and that would require meeting with them and discussing the issue. And to do that, Burns believes he needs to be accessible to the public.

"The taxpayers put us in office and we're accountable to them," he concluded. To whom do you believe the sheriff is accountable?

"Taxpayers and the citizens of the community," said Burns. "They are the ones who put the sheriff in office and he has got to be accountable to them. He has got to address their concerns." Do you believe the person who is sheriff should be explicitly accountable to the county council about jail meals, i.e. disclose on a monthly basis the amount of money spent to provide the meals, including documentation?

"The way the jail meals are currently ran, yes," said Burns. "I believe there should be a monthly report generated and sent to the county council and as far as I'm concerned, that should be a public record. However, the current way the jail meals are handled is the old way of doing things. And I believe that needs to be changed. As sheriff, I would not want the jail meal money."

Burns said that what is leftover from feeding the inmates should go back to the taxpayers. "I would not want the jail meals because I would have other administrative duties that I would need to concentrate on," he added.

Burns said that he believes there are jail menus that have been set up by a nutritionist and dietician. He said that what county officials need to decide is whether the jail matron or the jail cook will order the food for the next week's menus and have the food delivered. Then send food bills to the county for payment. There is no reason for the sheriff to even control it, he added.

"Once those menus are set up, all they have to do is make sure the food is there for those menus," explained Burns. "And the sheriff is completely taken out of it. Then if any issues arise as far as the quality of the food or the quantity or anything like that, as long as they are going by the dietician and the nutritionist's menus, that should take away any controversy over the jail meals because it is controlled by the county." If elected, do you plan to continue the practice of providing limited reading materials to inmates? Why?

Inmates have statutory rights on what kinds of reading materials they can have in jail, according to Burns. He was not sure but thought that the sheriff may be able to limit some reading material.

"I do not agree with limiting their reading material as long as it is appropriate for the jail facility," Burns said. "You cannot limit them on religious material only. I am sure that is going to be a violation of their rights." What does the jail currently charge for telephone calls? Do you plan to continue with the current policy?

Burns said that he did not know what a phone call costs an inmate.

"I have heard two things - phone calls for the inmates to call out are excessive and I've also heard, and I don't know this, that our commissary prices are inflated," he said. "And those are things that I would have to sit down, look at what we are charging. What is a reasonable price? I don't think you should pay anymore in jail than you would have to pay outside of jail."

If elected, Burns said that would be one of his first issues in office, find out what those costs are and make changes if necessary. Inmates have accused the sheriff's department of withholding personal hygiene items when they need them. If you were elected sheriff, what would your policy be about these types of concerns?

"I would have a policy that all inmates would have personal hygiene products given to them daily and whenever needed," said Burns. "You can't keep personal hygiene products from a person; they are human beings. I've heard the same complaints, but I'm not in a position to do anything about it."

"We're all human and there are a lot of people in jail that are not hardened criminals. They are just people who have made mistakes. The jail facility is strictly to detain people not to punish them. We're not to withhold stuff from them. We are to detain them until they have their day in court. That is what our function is, to provide a safe environment, provide all the basic necessities to them while we are detaining them until they have their day in court. When it comes to the treatment of inmates you have to do what is in their best interest. Treat them humanly and fairly and objectively."

"If I get elected I'm going to make the conditions of the jail better for inmates. It's not a Holiday Inn, and I'm not saying it should be a Holiday Inn; however, there are basic needs that every human has and they need to have all those needs met. You have to give them the basics." What more can be done to curb the manufacture and use of methamphetamine in Carroll County?

Burns said simply, "community involvement."

Burns said he wants to build a better relationship with the community - get them to contact police with suspicious activity that's going on in their neighborhoods.

"That information may not in itself be enough to act on; however there are things we can do such as saturation patrols," he added. "You would be amazed at what a traffic stop can lead into. We've got to have community involvement. We can't do it ourselves."

He explained that with only 12 deputies, it's hard to see what all is going on. If more people become involved, he said, that's more eyes and ears keeping a watch on the community and passing along information to police. To make Carroll County tough on methamphetamine, it will take the police and community working together, he concluded. Explain the difference between the misdemeanant fund and the commissary fund at the jail. What are they used for?

Burns said that it is his understanding that the commissary fund is a slush fund used for anything that there is a line item for in the budget. He said guidelines for the fund are set up by the state board of accounts. He is not familiar with the misdemeanant fund. What are the facility needs at the jail and how can they be addressed without building a new jail?

"There are inadequacies with the current jail and there are some current jail standards that our jail does not meet," said Burns. "We need to address those issues and start planning to get those implemented into the facility."

Burns said inadequate bed space is a problem. He said it is his understanding that the east side of the jail is not developed for that reason, so that if additional beds are needed, they could be added on that side.

Both the garage and the administrative offices are inadequate now, according to Burns. "We've outgrown that space. Even though we are landlocked, we do need to look and see what we can do to increase the space. Currently, we hardly have space for file cabinets."

Burns explained that when the jail was built, there were only five deputies and now there are 12. Another problem is that when the jail was designed, the interview room was put in a secure part of the jail.

"What if someone isn't under arrest?" asked Burns. "Why would I want to take them into the secure part of the jail? If I just want to talk to you and you're not under arrest, the only place I have to take you and talk to you is the squad room. That's where all the officers do their work. We have a little sign on the door that says whether we're interviewing or not. When we're interviewing, the other officers can't do any of their work. The jail wasn't designed for 12 officers."

"I think the inadequacies of the present jail can be brought up to state standards. We need to explore the other possibilities as far as administrative space. A jail study needs to be done, but I don't believe that we need to build a new facility. I think we can address the issues of the current jail and it's going to be cheaper for the taxpayers." Why would you make a better sheriff than your opponent?

"Because of my personal views on what a sheriff should be," Burns answered. "Any law enforcement officer who has 20 years of experience, which my opponent and I have, has a lot of training over our 20 years. I have just as much training as any 20-year veteran." He said he has attended both management and leadership schools.

"I believe that I'm the better candidate because I am concerned about the service that we are providing," Burns said. "I know that we can improve on it. I believe in treating everybody like you would like to be treated."

Burns said he believes he would be in tune with the community. His open door policy would assist police in identifying the community's concerns so that those concerns could be addressed, he said. What would you like the voters to know about you?

Burns quickly replied, "That I've been honored to have served as a deputy sheriff for 19 years. I believe in professionalism and integrity. I believe that police officers need to be held at the highest level of integrity. And that as sheriff, I would create a working partnership with the community, be held accountable in controlling the budget of the sheriff's office, and provide the highest level of public service for all the citizens of Carroll County."

Tony L. Burns Age: 41 Address: 9245 W. 225 N.

(Bicycle Bridge Bluffs),

Delphi Family: Wife, Melody; son,

Cameron, age 10, and daughter, Ashley Baer, age 17, both students in the Delphi

Community School

Corporation Education: 1982 graduate of

Delphi Community High School; graduate of Ivy Tech State College with an associate degree (Dean's Award recipient); and graduate of the Indiana Law Enforcement

Academy; and 2006 graduate

of Leadership Carroll County Current position: Sergeant in

charge of road officers, schedules, and civil process, and dive team coordinator (17

years); served as chief deputy

for 3 years Related memberships: Indiana Sheriff's Association, Indiana Cert. Accident Investigators

John Chapman said he is campaigning for county sheriff on an action plan that includes: Accountability, Competence, Teamwork, Integrity,

Openness,

Chapman

No Frills. He said that's what a sheriff needs to be and "that's what I will be if I'm elected sheriff." If elected sheriff, what do you see as your most important role?

Chapman replied, "Being seen in the community. The sheriff should always be open and available to talk to the public when needed."

He also believes that programs are needed that will benefit the whole county. Currently, the jail is starting a program for the inmates and their families using the jail chaplains. The objective is that when the inmate gets out of jail, there will be a support group for him/her and their family.

Chapman would also like to start road crews. He said there is money available to have people in the jail pick up trash in the side ditches, help clean-up the county parks and after the county fair.

"If there's painting that needs to be done, sticks that need to be picked up, mowing, why not get these guys out of jail to make things look nice and attractive," said Chapman. "It benefits the inmates because they will be outside working, there will be less stress for them. We're solving problems in the jail and helping out the community."

Another program he would like to see implemented is resource officers in the county schools. A resource officer would be a liaison between the local police department and school. "The officer would actually be at the school, talking to students, developing a relationship with them," said Chapman. "There are some problems in the school and we'd just like to have someone in the schools to know what's going on. The officer could help with fights and drugs. This would be a good way for us to start relating to the kids. It's a win-win for everyone. We'd be there, not as part of the school administration, but there to protect kids." What do you think is the biggest challenge facing you if you are elected sheriff?

Chapman believes his biggest challenge would be methamphetamine.

"Meth has basically taken over the county," he said. "There's a war on meth. It's in every part of this county. It's hard to treat. It's a community problem."

He went on to say that meth is a dangerous drug to make. He said when people are arrested there are often children and CPS (Child Protective Services) has to be called. There are contamination issues, too. What qualities do you possess that you believe will make you a good sheriff?

Chapman said he has always tried to excel in his training, go over and above what is required. In the past several years he has taken additional training and attended various conferences to help prepare him for the job of sheriff. If elected, do you see yourself as an administrator/delegator or as a hands-on officer who works the field and is seldom behind a desk?

"I believe both," he said. "I don't think you can be effective as a sheriff if you don't do both. I think there are times that you need to be out in the field making decisions by yourself, what you think is right. On the other hand, I believe there are many times you need to be sitting behind a desk doing administrative work. You have to delegate. We have good people at the jail and they need to be put in the right positions." How would you handle public criticism of the sheriff's department?

There are two sides to a story, said Chapman. He believes in looking at the situation to see if there is merit.

"We may have to explore if we're up to standards on what we're doing. Public criticism may cause us to make a change for the better for our department. I think it's important to be held accountable to the people." To whom do you believe the sheriff is accountable?

"To the people" was Chapman's quick reply. He said the sheriff should be accountable to the commissioners for the day-to-day operations of the jail and be fiscally responsible to the council which sets his budget.

"We need to send someone to school to write grants. We need to look at what grants are out there that we can use to get our programs or whatever started."

Chapman also believes that seizure monies should be used for things the department needs. "We just started up again doing seizures of vehicles and property that are involved in crimes. We need to take that stuff and use it for our good."

Chapman said this can be a way to purchase things for the department and won't cost the taxpayers anything. Do you believe the person who is sheriff should be explicitly accountable to the county council about jail meals, i.e. disclose on a monthly basis the amount of money spent to provide the meals, including documentation?

"Our county - there is probably less than 12 counties in the state - doesn't have a contract with the sheriff for jail meals," said Chapman. "Sheriff Randle, when he was first elected, offered to do a contract with the council and they didn't want to. If it was up to me I'd prefer to sign a contract and not have to worry about things like this."

Chapman said that with a contract, the sheriff would be responsible for buying the food, but that he would submit bills to the county for payment. The state sets a cost per meal per prisoner and if there is any money leftover, it should go back to the county, he said.

Chapman said he wants to be responsible for meal preparation because if meals are prepared off-site, "you run into problems that are outside your control." If elected, do you plan to continue the practice of providing limited reading materials to inmates? Why?

Chapman said recently there have been a lot of books containing sexual references that have been removed from the jail. The books were cleaned out and more are coming in, he said. What does the jail currently charge for telephone calls? Do you plan to continue with the current policy?

"I have no idea, to be honest with you," said Chapman. "They have telephone minutes available to them that they can purchase. I don't know the cost per minute, that's up to the sheriff." Inmates have accused the s h e r i f f ' s department of w i t h h o l d i n g p e r s o n a l hygiene items when they need them. If you were elected sheriff, what would your policy be about these types of concerns?

"We have to make sure that we meet all their needs," said Chapman. "There's two ways you can look at it. You can give a guy a roll or two of toilet paper and in five hours you go back and it's all gone. Where did it go? They're sitting there with little chess pieces they've made out of toilet paper."

Chapman said that the jail has to provide inmates with personal hygiene items and he's 99.9 percent sure that no inmate has had to purchase needed items. What more can be done to curb the manufacture and use of methamphetamine in Carroll County?

Chapman explained a few ideas he has for cracking down on the meth problem in Carroll County. First, he would like to implement Operation ICE (Intense Criminal Enforcement) Operation ICE entails officers working the secondary roads to try to locate any type of criminal problems.

He would also like to add another drug enforcement officer. "Carroll County has only one drug enforcement officer and there is no way he can effectively do everything that needs to be done," said Chapman.

Thirdly, Chapman believes police officers and community members need to work at building relationship so that the public is more comfortable talking to police and reporting suspicious activity. The sheriff and deputies are connected with b l a c k b e r r i e s Chapman said they need to use this form of communication as effectively as possible.

"If someone has a problem, the officers need to be able to respond to them quickly," added Chapman. "If it's on their (officer's) day off and they check their voice messages, they should respond."

Chapman believes building a relationship between police and the public is crucial. "We cannot effectively do everything, so we need the public's help."

Another program he would like to implement is coffee shop talks. He thinks it is important that these talks be held regularly in each part of the county so officers can talk to the people and see what their needs are and what they want.

"We need to tell them what's going on in their communities," said Chapman. "We need to say these are the problems we are seeing and this is what we would like to do. What do you think? Each part of our county has its own unique set of problems. There aren't a lot of problems up around the lake until summertime. Sometimes around Burlington we get the people out of Kokomo who are a little crazy to deal with. That all needs to be addressed."

Chapman would also like to hold a yearly county-wide meeting. This would be an opportunity to "tell the people this is what we're seeing in our county. This is what we're going to try to do in the following year."

It's important to Chapman that the sheriff's department works with citizens so that they know what is going on in their communities.. He sees that as moving on the right track. One of his favorite sayings is, "If you're not moving on the right track, you're going to get run over by the train." Explain the difference between the misdemeanant fund and the commissary fund at the jail. What are they used for?

The misdemeanant fund is monies that the sheriff's department receives from the state for holding state prisoners, Chapman explained. The county is reimbursed for housing prisoners who are sentenced to serve time in the Department of Correction. So much money is allowed, he said.

"They take care of that down at the state," said Chapman. "They process the prisoners and send us a check. Monies are supposed to be used for things like jail programs."

He went on to explain that commissary funds are funds which are brought in through the selling of commissary items such as pop, candy bars and such at the jail. He said although that fund is not controlled by the county council, the sheriff has to prepare a report of money brought in, expenses, and what the current balance is.

"If guys go to training or want to go to school, a lot of that comes out of the commissary fund," added Chapman. What are the facility needs at the jail and how can they be addressed without building a new jail?

"The jail has some real serious issues," said Chapman. "There has never been a yearly maintenance schedule for the jail. When something starts going bad, it snowballs."

He cited problems with the building's exterior, the heating and cooling system, the communication part of the jail, enough space for officers, and bed space for prisoners.

"When the jail was originally built, there was only one radio in it," he explained. "Now, with 911 and putting a dispatch center in, there's problems because there is no room."

"We need more space at the jail," said Chapman. "A new jail would probably be the most effective."

Citing a study done in 2003 concerning jail expansion and renovation, Chapman said to bring the old jail up to code and fix all the problems, the cost is estimated at $7.1 million. He thought a new facility would cost around $11.1 million.

"Facility needs can be addressed," he said, "and the facility could be brought up to code, but you really have no place for expansion there."

Chapman said he knows this will not be a very popular topic with taxpayers, but to address all the facility needs at the jail, he believes a new facility is the best solution. Why would you make a better sheriff than your opponent?

Chapman replied, "My training, my education. If I make a decision I'm not going to blame anyone for my decisions that I make. I will stand by my decisions. My experience with the drug task force is going to help out with the meth problems."

Because Chapman helps oversee the daily operations of the jail, he believes he knows what needs to be done.

"People want change. They deserve change. And yes, there will be changes. The command staff needs to be available to the public at all times. We need a more proactive approach because if you're not proactive, you're going to get run over by a train," he concluded. What would you like voters to know about you?

"That I'm a fair, honest, Christian person," said Chapman. "I'm always about doing the right thing, even if it's not the most popular thing to do. Protect the citizens the best we can do it. They deserve service to them that is not just acceptable, but exceptional."

John Chapman Age: 43 Address: 520 E. Franklin St.,

Delphi Family: Wife, Cindi; and four

sons, Ben, Derek, Justin and

Ian Education: 1981 graduate of

Delphi Community High School; 1984 graduate of Indiana State University with a degree in criminology; 1988 graduate of the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy; and

2006 graduate of Leadership

Carroll County Current position: Chief deputy Related memberships: Partners

for a Drug-Free Carroll County, Indiana Sheriff's Association, Indiana Drug Enforcement Association, National Criminal Enforcement Association, Fraternal Order of Police, and National Rifle Association (firearm certification)